Interview: Roland Gustafsson


*** In the beginning ***

Was it hard to find documentation about disk protection schemes and the low level disk drive mechanism? How did you get this knowledge?

What was your interest in studying such techniques?

How did you became a copy-protection specialist?

Can you explain how you came to work for the software publishers that you worked with?

Was it a good job (money, interest)?


*** COMMERCIAL SOFTWARE ***

Do you have a list of all the software you were responsible for providing the protection schemes for?

Broderbund:
Captain Goodnight
Where in the USA is Carmen San Diego
Where in the World is Carmen San Diego
Airheart
Prince of Persia
Toy Shop
Wings Of Fury
The Print Shop
The Print Shop Companion
The Print Shop GS?
The Print Shop Companion GS

Tetris (Spectrum Holobyte)
Tangles Tales (Origin Systems)

Timeline for working with Companies:

SSI (1981 to ?)
Silicon Valley Systems (? to ?)
Gebelli (? to ?)
Br0derbund (1984 to 1990)
any other companies e.g.
Infocom? (Are you the author of the protection scheme for Trinity?)
Activision? (Are you the author of the protection scheme for Last Ninja?)

*** TECHNIQUES ***

- RDOS

Did you write it specially for SSI and their RPG games?
Do you know why SSI used the "QWERTY file" protection for years?

- SPIRALING ("Checkerboard" / Mosaic spiral ??)

According to Steven Levy, author of the book HACKERS, Heroes of the
Computer Revolution, "Mark Duchaineau was a hacker who came up with a
prevention scheme called Spiradisk for the Apple computer. This scheme
actually made the software loading process faster by loading data in
spirals instead of in concentric circles".
Could you explain us what's the difference between Spiradisk used for
Sierra On Line products and your own technique.
Was it always stable in every disk drive ?

- OTHER TECHNIQUES

What was the theory behind using the following techniques?
Track number which doesn't exist at all on the disk (Airheart missing Track $1C?).
Bad track number (number x on track x+1 or duplicated track number?).
Slow drives (to write more datas on each track).

Did you also write protection schemes which were never used? (e.g. RWTS with a .75 step, ...) Can you elaborate?

Which techniques did you use to hide the protection (pseudo code, tricks with auto-change dynamic code, ...)

Did you accept remarks from crackers to enhance your protection?

Did you have to study the protection schemes of others companies (I mean to boot trace and disassemble them)? Or had you some contacts with other copy-protect guys working from other companies?

Did you ever use some code you found in another author's program?

Did you have a contract for each protection (contract with a fixed price or a % for each copy sold)?

*** COPY-PROTECT DEPARTMENTS ***

Was there really a copy protection "department" at any of the publishers that you worked for?
Or was this just a part of duplication & distribution?

Can you explain the process that was used by Broderbund to apply copy protection to a product? e.g.
Who was responsible for determining what protection was used on each program?
How many people were writing copy protections for the publishers you worked with?
Did you yourself apply the protection to the products or was that done by someone else?
Was it always possible to insert the protection code inside the program?
Did you/they always have the source code of the game to be able to do this?
Was the protection created/applied only at the end of a project?
Once the protection was done, how were the master disk(s) duplicated to create original disks for sale?
Who did the copies? Br0derbund with a lot of apple II computers or other professional duplication companies : formasters such as Dysan, Formaster Corporation, Alf Copy Service, Logic General Corporation, ...?

Did you play with unusual hardware (Formaster series, ...)?

When did Br0derbund stop copy-protecting their software? and what led to this decision?


*** PIRACY AND TOOLS ***

How did you and the publishers that you did work for react when your protections were cracked and illegally distributed?

Do you know if Br0derbund was sent cracked versions of their latest releases?

Were you ever involved with assisting authorities with prosecuting pirates (BSA, ...)?
If so, do you have stories about that ?

Hardcore Computist was a famous Apple II magazine with articles written by hackers/crackers (theoretically for personnal backup purpose only). What was your opinion about this magazine?

The EDD 4 nibble copier with the EDD Plus card (hardware) from Utilico Software was an auxiliary disk drive controller that was able to intercept the data stream before it reached the drive controller and pass the raw bitstream onto the computer (including all the sync bits/extra zeros bits). In theory it was able to copy any floppy disks if the user had some knowledge about the protection scheme being used on the disk.
What impact if any did this tool have on you/Broderbund? Did you ever use one to try and owrk out how to defeat it?

Every protection scheme can be broken (some of them required lots of time). Is it for this reason you wrote funning messages on the disks such as "Roland was here, but he left!" (confirm rumor?)

Do you realise that the source code of an 18 sector write routine was left on one of the original disks?
It was a real *gift* for crackers who used it to build a copy-program... There were elaborate programs running in France to copy your 18 sectors software (Gogsmith from The Gog's, Brainsmith from The Brain Trust capable of analyzing the format
and reproduce it, dedicated copy-program for 1 software, ...)


*** RELATIONSHIP ***

- USA

It is said that the best copy-protect persons are the best crackers too. Did you play only in one side, or... in both? (If so, what was your nickname?)

Did you have contact with pirates/crackers?

- European connection

In Europe, a famous cracker from Switzerland was called MR.Z (Mister Z).
He used to destroy floppy disks protection. One of these disk was the 18 sectors game ?Where in the USA is Carmen San Diego?.
He added a nice musical and graphical introduction (music from Jean-Michel Jarre +Electric Duet and a smooth scroll with a long text as french guys usually did).
He explained that when he came to the USA (in 1986?), he tried to meet somebody of the Br0derbund copy-protect department to talk about protection scheme but without success.
Following is the text message :
HI TO EVERYBODY, WELCOME TO THE CRACKED VERSION OF "WHERE IN THE USA IS CARMEN SAN DIEGO?"
BEHIND THIS CRACK LIES A LONG STORY : AT THE BEGINNING THERE'S MY VACATION IN CALIFORNIA WITH MY OLD FRIEND MERLIN. WE DIDN'T MISS THE OPPORTUNITY THAT WAS GIVEN TO US TO VISIT THE MOST FAMOUS SOFTWARE COMPANIES.
SO ON A SUNNY DAY OF AUGUST WE ARRIVED AT SAN RAPHAEL HOME TOWN OF BR0DERBUND SOFTWARE. AFTER AN INTERESTING TOUR OF THE COMPANY'S OFFICES I ASKED IF IT COULD BE POSSIBLE FOR US TO HAVE A TALK WITH THE PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DISK PROTECTIONS. THE GIRL WE WERE TALKING TO ANSWERED THAT SHE HAD TO ASK THE PEOPLE FIRST AND THAT I COULD CALL HER BACK IN A COUPLE OF DAYS. WHEN I CALLED SHE TOLD ME THAT THE DISK PRODUCTION DEPARTMENT WAS A MORE SECRET PLACE THAN SHE FIRST THOUGHT AND THAT IT WOULD BE BETTER FOR US NOT TO COME BACK. OBVIOUSLY THEY KICKED US OUT THINKING WE WERE JUST TWO KIDS WHO WANTED TO PLAY. WELL, I MADE THIS CRACK TO SHOW THEM THAT WE COULD REALLY HAVE HELPED PERFECTING THEIR PROTECTIONS!!!
NOW HERE'S WHAT I WANNA SAY : TO CAROL ANN : THANK YOU, YOU PROBABLY MADE ALL WHAT WAS POSSIBLE TO lET US ENTER, TOO BAD IT DIDN'T WORK!!!
TO ROLAND GUSTAFSSON : I'M SORRY BUT ALL WHAT YOU DO IS NOT A "SECRET" AT LEAST NOT FOR US, YOU HAVE WRITTEN A BUNCH OF GOOD DISK ROUTINES THAT'S ALL. YOUR PROTECTIONS ARE GREAT BUT THEY COULD BE PERFECT IF YOU CHANGED A COUPLE OF THINGS: FIRST OF ALL DON'T LEAVE THE WRITE ROUTINES ON THE SOFTS, USE GOOD OLD 4&4 TO WRITE <IT TOOK ME LESS THAN AN HOUR TO HAVE A WORKING COPIER AND TO BUST THE VERIFICATION>
YOU COULD ALSO HAVE PLAYED WITH THE TIMING AT THE BEGINNING OF EACH TRACK TO HAVE AN UNCOPYABLE FORMAT RATHER THAN AN UNCOPYABLE VERIFICATION. ONE LAST WORD: IT'S EASY TO WRITE A SMALL INTERPRETER AND THEN TO USE IT TO CHECK THE R/W ROUTINES AND WITH THIS SYSTEM YOU CAN STUFF ALMOST EVERYBODY THINK ABOUT IT!! TO MERLIN: HI SYLVAIN WHAT'S UP? YOU
REALLY ARE COURAGEOUS TO STAY IN THE USA. HOPE YOUR SITUATION WILL EVOLVE IN A MORE PLEASANT WAY ANYWAY THOSE WEEKS TOGETHER WERE GREAT!!!!
SOME INFORMATIONS ON THIS CRACK: REORGANIZING A DOUBLE SIDED DISK WRITTEN IN A 18 SECTORS FORMAT IS NOT VERY EASY, SO EXCUSE ME FOR THE NUMEROUS DISK FLIPPINGS YOU'LL ENCOUNTER DURING PLAY. CLASSICAL 16 SECTORS ROUTINES ALSO ARE SLOWER THAN THE ORIGINAL FAST ONES, BUT ANYWAY, THE GAME SHOULD WORK FINE, JUST LIKE THE ORIGINAL. WE TESTED IT DURING MANY HOURS. ENJOY!!! MISTER Z FROM B.P.S.....
(.dsk tested with Applewin 1.12.3)

Years later, he was a member of the FTA team (Free Tools Association) and wrote demos. Some of them are well-known by the IIGS community : Xmas-demo, California demo, Delta demo, ...
The FTA gang went to California during summer 1991 and the guys met you. Did you speak about protection schemes as he wanted to do when he was younger? ;-)


*** OTHERS ***

Do you still have your programs and source code?
If so, would you consider releasing this material for others to study?

History